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Day 120: January 17, 2025

The Witness: Live Updates | Day 120 of Jimmy Lai’s Trial: Lai Says He Was Unaware of Contracts for Former U.S. Officials Consulting Tsai Ing-wen

The trial of Jimmy Lai, founder of Next Digital, charged with “conspiracy to collude with foreign forces” and other offenses, resumed Friday for its 120th day at West Kowloon Magistrates’ Court, temporarily serving as the High Court. Friday also marked the 28th day of Lai’s testimony.

Prosecutors continued questioning Lai about his introduction of retired U.S. General and former Vice Chief of Staff Jack Keane and former Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz to Taiwan’s then-President Tsai Ing-wen. Under cross-examination Thursday, Lai confirmed arranging the introductions to explain U.S. government views and policies on Taiwan. He admitted personally funding their trips and consultancy fees, stating that Tsai was unaware of the payments because he considered Keane and Wolfowitz his friends and had arranged the meeting himself.

Justice Alex Lee Wan-tang questioned why the Taiwan government had not covered the expenses. Lai responded that, since he had arranged the meetings, he felt responsible for the costs.

The case is being heard by National Security Law-designated judges: Justice Esther Toh Lye-ping, Justice Susana Maria D’Almada Remedios, and Justice Alex Lee Wan-tang. The prosecution team includes Deputy Director of Public Prosecutions Anthony Chau Tin-hang, Assistant Director of Public Prosecutions Ivan Cheung Cheuk-kan, and Senior Public Prosecutor Crystal Chan Wing-sum. Lai’s defense team is led by Senior Counsel Robert Pang Yiu-hung, Barrister Steven Kwan, and New Zealand King’s Counsel Marc Corlett, who is qualified to practice in Hong Kong.

Detailed Transcription

16:30 Court Adjourns 

15:53 Antonio Chiang Chun-nan Received NT$200,000 Monthly from Apple Daily Taiwan Without Writing Articles; Lai Claims It Was a Misunderstanding and Ordered Payments to Stop

The prosecution presented messages between Lai and Mark Simon, in which Lai stated:
“Please note money to Jack is not a gift but to help him pay off the loan. If he won’t have money to pay me back in the future, it’s fine.” Lai clarified that the payment was conditional on Jack Keane’s ability to repay in the future, though he was uncertain if Keane ever repaid the amount.

Regarding Antonio Chiang Chun-nan, the prosecution questioned his relationship with Lai, pointing out that Chiang was a close aide to then-President Tsai Ing-wen while also contributing to Apple Daily Taiwan. Lai explained that Chiang began contributing weekly columns to Next Magazine and Apple Daily Taiwan before joining the government.

The prosecution presented an internal email from Apple Daily Taiwan dated March 25, 2020, titled Antonio Chiang Chun-nan Expenses. The email outlined the following:

  • In November 2017, Lai instructed Ip Yut Kin, Chairman of Next Digital Taiwan, to pay Chiang NT$209,606 monthly as a “consulting fee” unrelated to writing articles. The payments were made under a consultancy agreement.
  • By early 2019, the publisher questioned why payments continued since Chiang had stopped writing. Lai responded that payments should continue.
  • During a cost-saving meeting, the publisher suggested cutting the payments, which was approved by the CEO.

The prosecution asked Lai whether he had instructed Ip Yut Kin to make these payments. Lai replied that there seemed to be a misunderstanding. He claimed that once he realized Chiang was no longer writing articles, he ordered payments to stop. However, colleagues believed Chiang was still useful to Lai and continued payments.

An Excel file titled “Antonio Chiang Chun-nan Consultancy Fees” was presented, showing payments from November 2017 to February 29, 2020. Justice Alex Lee Wan-tang questioned whether Chiang received NT$5.8 million during this period without any justification. Lai agreed and expressed surprise upon learning of the payments.

15:32 Break

15:20 Messages Show Lai Spent Over HK$10 Million on Consulting Services by Two Former U.S. Officials for Tsai Ing-wen

The prosecution presented a conversation between Lai and Mark Simon on July 19, 2018, regarding expenditures:

  • Lai:
    *”From Royston’s statement:
    1. Remittance to Canada for special projects in $14.9 million.
      What’s that?”*
  • Mark Simon:
    “That’s Jack and Paul. All their payments go via Canada as per their concerns for security visibility of transfers.
    It’s US$750K per year each, plus we had gifted payment to Jack to complete, which was US$250K.
    So US$1.75M targeted there, which is HK$13.5M.
    And we also pay their reimbursements for trips and Rupert for the remaining HK$1.4M.
    Total $14.9M.
    Both Paul and Jack are very tax averse; as such, we pay them as requested via Canada.
    I would add that Paul has not given instructions yet on how to be paid, so his is still sitting.
    Mark”

Lai explained in court that Mark Simon was reporting the expenditures to him, and clarified that Rupert was an expert on Taiwan affairs. Lai confirmed that Jack Keane and Paul Wolfowitz were paid US$750,000 each annually, totaling US$1.5 million. Additionally, Keane received an extra US$250,000. Including Rupert’s fees and other expenses, the total amounted to HK$14.9 million.

15:10 Judge Questions If Consulting Plan Was Lai’s Idea; Lai Reiterates It Was Suggested by Tsai Ing-wen’s Aide

The prosecution asked whether the contract involving Jack Keane and Paul Wolfowitz was limited to Taiwan. Lai responded that he had no knowledge of the contract. When pressed further about whether the two visited places other than Taiwan, Lai stated they only visited Taiwan.

Judge Esther Toh Lye-ping inquired if Lai had a verbal agreement with Keane and Wolfowitz to provide consulting services in Taiwan. Lai confirmed this. The prosecution then presented messages between Lai and Mark Simon, in which Simon said:
“Paul thinks they can do Taiwan more good by also seeing Vietnam, Japan, and other allies.”

Lai replied: “Ok. If that’s what Paul thinks that’s to be right.”
Lai explained that the suggestion came from Paul Wolfowitz but was never executed.

The prosecution questioned whether Lai verbally agreed that Keane and Wolfowitz could visit countries like Japan and Vietnam. Lai replied that while he considered it a good suggestion, he never heard more about it, nor was there any verbal agreement. He emphasized that the visits ultimately did not occur.

Further messages from Simon were presented:

  • Mark Simon:
    “So far 3 trips in 2018
    May 3-9 – Japan
    July 7-Aug 8th – SGP/TPE
    Nov 3-10 – Viet/Taipei
    So Jan will be 4th Trip
    Then they did 3 trips in 2017 Feb-Feb”

The prosecution pointed out that the message mentioned trips to Japan, Singapore, and Vietnam. Lai reiterated that Keane and Wolfowitz only visited Taiwan and that he was unaware of visits to other countries. Judge Alex Lee Wan-tang asked whether a trip lasting over a month raised any concerns for Lai. Lai said he could not recall why the two would spend so much time on travel.

A separate conversation between Lai and Wolfowitz from February 3, 2018, revealed Wolfowitz stating:
“I think your idea of launching this project has turned out to be truly inspiring. I am hopeful it is going to have an impact beyond what we had imagined. You really are a visionary. I hope that your vision for China can truly come to pass despite how remote it seems to be at present.”

Judge Toh asked if the Taiwan-related project was Lai’s idea. Lai reiterated that it was first raised by Antonio Chiang Chun-nan, Tsai Ing-wen’s aide, who suggested Tsai wanted to understand the Trump administration’s views. Lai said he merely facilitated the arrangements.

The prosecution asked how much Lai had spent on consulting fees for Keane and Wolfowitz. Lai stated he did not know, as the payments were handled by Mark Simon.

14:50 Lai Claims Arranging Meetings Between Former U.S. Officials and Tsai Ing-wen Unrelated to His Remarks About “Using Taiwan as Leverage”

The prosecution presented a message from July 19, 2019, where Mark Simon stated:
“It was a two-year contract with Paul and Jack.”
Lai acknowledged seeing the message but clarified that the contract was not executed for two full years, only for one year.

The prosecution shared further messages between Lai and Simon:

  • Lai: “But they only came for one year four times. Why is it a two-year contract?”
  • Mark Simon: “No, it was a two-year contract from the start. 2017 & 2018 with their 4th trip for 2018 delayed to the past spring.”
  • Lai: “So they came 8 times together?”
  • Mark Simon: “4 times in 2017, 4 times in 2018/2019.”

Lai confirmed in court that the messages referred to visits by Jack Keane and Paul Wolfowitz to Taiwan. Judge Alex Lee Wan-tang noted that the messages suggested the two officials visited Taiwan a total of eight times. Lai, however, stated that to his knowledge, they only visited Taiwan four times in 2017. He added that he personally traveled to Taiwan four times that year to meet them for meals but did not meet them in 2018 or 2019.

The prosecution asked if the four meetings in 2017 were related to the same topic. Lai said he did not know the content of their meetings with Tsai Ing-wen, as he was not present. He confirmed, however, that he paid the consulting fees and that the meetings were related to the Trump administration’s stance on Taiwan. The prosecution referenced earlier messages where Lai mentioned using Taiwan as leverage against China. Lai insisted that those remarks were unrelated to the meetings and were instead part of a message intended for then-U.S. National Security Advisor John Bolton.

The prosecution further presented a message from August 28, 2017, between Lai and Antonio Chiang Chun-nan, Tsai Ing-wen’s aide, where Lai wrote:
“A long-term energy contract, as Taiwan is back into the radar, is to put light in Washington’s eye. It prompts constant communication with Washington. Recruit retired American generals to upgrade military mentality as a base to upgrade military in general. The last is to hire a top-notch diplomat to reset constant contacts on the diplomatic floor in Washington. These are the points. I want to make to the boss for, Actually you can convey it clearly to her. I’ve no need to see her. But those are very good advice worth boss’ thought on them.”

The prosecution pointed out that Jack Keane and Paul Wolfowitz met Tsai Ing-wen on August 16, 2017, and Lai sent the message on August 28, asking Chiang to convey it to Tsai. Lai confirmed this but reiterated that it was unrelated to his earlier remarks about “using Taiwan as leverage.”

14:40 Lai Claims Unawareness of Consulting Contract Between Two Former U.S. Officials and Tsai Ing-wen

The prosecution continued questioning Jimmy Lai about his introduction of retired U.S. General and former Vice Chief of Staff Jack Keane and former Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz to Taiwan’s then-President Tsai Ing-wen. The prosecution asked about the consulting contract involving Keane and Wolfowitz, suggesting it was supported by then-U.S. President Donald Trump. Lai clarified in court that it was not the contract itself but the consulting services provided by Jack Keane to Tsai Ing-wen that had support.

When asked who signed the consulting contract, Lai stated he was not involved and had no knowledge of it. The prosecution pointed out that the contract spanned two years, but Lai said he did not know.

Judge Alex Lee Wan-tang expressed confusion, asking who the other party to the contract was. Lai reiterated that he was unaware of the contract’s existence until the trial. Judge Lee asked whether Lai knew that Keane and Wolfowitz needed approval from the U.S. Department of Justice to provide consulting services. Lai confirmed this but said he was unaware of any contract.

The prosecution presented a June 2017 message exchange between Lai and Mark Simon, in which Simon wrote:
“We have good news from DOJ. They approved the consulting contract approach with Paul and Jack.”

Lai responded: “Wonderful.”

The prosecution argued that Lai was therefore aware of the consulting contract. Lai responded that he had not paid attention to the contract itself but only noted that the approval had been granted. Judge Esther Toh Lye-ping pointed out another message from Simon stating:
“So will get started on final contract in DC this week.”

Lai stated he had not noticed this detail and confirmed he had not signed any related contracts.

The Witness

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